Gender Roles, in stories
- Wescli Wardest
-
Topic Author
- Away
- Meister
-
- Posts: 853
- Thank you received: 1084
Interesting to see someone that I normally disagree with about every political idea start to see things in what I might refer to as the light of reality. Of course that is because I believe that I am right along with my point of view LOL

I will not comment much on it except for one thing I will get to in a minute. The reason is that I do not want to taint anything you might or might gotten from it with my opinions. There is one conclusion that she draws I feel is a Freudian over-simplification. When she compares the hero’s journey to male orgasm.
~shakes head~

If that were even remotely true then the journey could be equated to the female orgasm and thus any realization she had through the entire article would have been for not. I will go with the assumption that being female she does not fully understand the male qualities; as I being a male do not fully understand the female qualities; that drive, motivate, inspire and aspire to achieve.
Let me know what you think.
By Brit Marling
Ms. Marling is a filmmaker.
Feb. 7, 2020
I moved to Los Angeles to become an actress at 24. These are character descriptions of roles I have read for: “thin, attractive, Dave’s wife”; “robot girl, a remarkable feat of engineering”; “her breasts are large and she’s wearing a red sweater.”
I stuffed my bra for that last one. I still did not get the part.
After a while it was hard to tell what was the greater source of my depression: that I could not book a part in a horror film where I had three lines and died on Page 4, or that I was even auditioning to play these roles at all. After dozens of auditions and zero callbacks, my mom suggested I get breast implants. From her perspective, I had walked away from a coveted job at Goldman Sachs and chosen a profession of self-commodification. She wanted to help me sell better.
But I wasn’t drawn to acting because I wanted to be desired. I was drawn to acting because I felt it would allow me to become the whole, embodied person I remembered being in childhood — one that could imagine freely, listen deeply and feel wholeheartedly.
I continued to audition and continued to fail. My depression deepened. My self-esteem plummeted. My boyfriend would get drunk and punch holes in the wall next to my head. I let him. He spat in my face. I let him. He dissolved into tears in my arms. I let him. And then I sifted through the ashes of his anger and his father’s anger before him to help him uncover the forgiveness he needed to move on. I was auditioning to be “Dave’s wife.” I was “robot girl, a remarkable feat of engineering.”
After a day of running from men with chain saws in audition rooms and a night of running from the man I shared a bed with, I decided I was done auditioning. I felt I had to write my way out of these roles or I wouldn’t find my way in the real world, either. I could not be what I could not see onscreen.
So I went to the library in downtown Los Angeles and started reading books and watching films about how to write dramas for the screen. I clung to Jodie Foster in Jonathan Demme’s “Silence of the Lambs,” to Holly Hunter in Jane Campion’s “The Piano.”
But aside from a handful of exceptions, I was overwhelmed by the number of dramatic narratives that murdered their female characters.
In “The Big Heat” she has a pot of boiling coffee thrown in her face and is then shot in the back. In “Chinatown” the bullet tears through her brain and out her eye. And in case this seems like a trend of the past, consider the more recent noir “Blade Runner 2049,” where the holographic femme fatale is deleted and the remaining women are stabbed, drowned and gutted like a fish.
Even the spirited Antigone, the brave Joan of Arc and the unfettered Thelma and Louise meet tragic ends in large part because they are spirited, brave and unfettered. They can defy kings, refuse beauty and defend themselves against violence. But it’s challenging for a writer to imagine a world in which such free women can exist without brutal consequences.
We live in a world that is a direct reflection of these stories we’ve been telling. Close to four women a day are murdered in America at the hands of their partners or former partners. One out of every four women in America has been the victim of a rape.
I am one of those one out of four. Our narratives tell us that women are objects and objects are disposable, so we are always objectified and often disposed of.
There are centuries of trial and error inside the “hero’s journey,” in which a young man is called to adventure, challenged by trials, faces a climactic battle and emerges victorious, changed and a hero. And while there are narrative patterns for the adventures of girls — “Alice in Wonderland,” “The Wizard of Oz” — those are few and far between, and for adult women, even less so.
Even when I found myself writing stories about women rebelling against the patriarchy, it still felt like what I largely ended up describing was the confines of patriarchy. The more fettered I felt inside the real world, the more I turned toward science fiction, speculative fiction and lo-fi fantasy.
I eventually co-wrote, produced and starred in two microbudget films, “Another Earth” and “Sound of My Voice.” Both stories left reality just far enough behind to give me the mental freedom to imagine female characters behaving in ways not often seen onscreen.
I emerged from the Sundance Film Festival with offers to act in projects I would never have been allowed to read for a week prior. Most of those roles were still girlfriend, mistress, mother. But there was a new character on offer to me as well, one that survived the story.
Enter, stage right: the Strong Female Lead.
She’s an assassin, a spy, a soldier, a superhero, a C.E.O. She can make a wound compress out of a maxi pad while on the lam. She’s got MacGyver’s resourcefulness but looks better in a tank top.
Acting the part of the Strong Female Lead changed both who I was and what I thought I was capable of. Training to do my own stunt work made me feel formidable and respected on set. Playing scenes where I was the boss firing men tasted like empowerment. And it will always feel better to be holding the gun in the scene than to be pleading for your life at the other end of the barrel.
It would be hard to deny that there is nutrition to be drawn from any narrative that gives women agency and voice in a world where they are most often without both. But the more I acted the Strong Female Lead, the more I became aware of the narrow specificity of the characters’ strengths — physical prowess, linear ambition, focused rationality. Masculine modalities of power.
I thought back to the films I watched and stories I read burrowed deep in the stacks of the library. I began to see something deeper and more insidious behind all those images of dead and dying women.
When we kill women in our stories, we aren’t just annihilating female gendered bodies. We are annihilating the feminine as a force wherever it resides — in women, in men, of the natural world. Because what we really mean when we say we want strong female leads is: “Give me a man but in the body of a woman I still want to see naked.”
It’s difficult for us to imagine femininity itself — empathy, vulnerability, listening — as strong. When I look at the world our stories have helped us envision and then erect, these are the very qualities that have been vanquished in favor of an overwrought masculinity.
I’ve played the Strong Female Lead in real life, too — as an analyst at an investment bank before coming to Hollywood. I wore suits, drank Scotch neat and talked about the women and the men I was sleeping with like commodities on an open market. I buried my feminine intelligence alive in order to survive. I excelled at my linear task of making more money from a lot of money regardless of the long-term consequences for others and the environment.
The lone female V.P. on my floor and my mentor at the time gave me the following advice when she left to partner at a hedge fund: Once a week, open the door to your office when they finally give you one, and place a phone call where you shout a string of expletives in a threatening voice.
She added that there doesn’t actually need to be someone on the other end of the line.
I don’t believe the feminine is sublime and the masculine is horrifying. I believe both are valuable, essential, powerful. But we have maligned one, venerated the other, and fallen into exaggerated performances of both that cause harm to all. How do we restore balance? Or how do we evolve beyond the limitations that binaries like feminine/masculine present in the first place?
In 2014 I went back to the library and encountered Octavia Butler’s “Parable of the Sower,” a sci-fi novel written in 1993 imagining a 2020 where society has largely collapsed from climate change and growing wealth inequality. Butler’s heroine, the 17 year-old Lauren, has “hyperempathy” — she feels, quite literally, other people’s pain. This feminine gift and curse uniquely prepares her to survive the violent attack on her community in Los Angeles and successfully encourage a small tribe north to begin again from seeds she has saved from her family’s garden.
Butler felt to me like a lighthouse blinking from an island of understanding way out at sea. I had no idea how to get there, but I knew she had found something life saving. She had found a form of resistance.
Butler and other writers like Ursula Le Guin, Toni Morrison and Margaret Atwood did not employ speculative fiction to colonize other planets, enslave new life-forms, or extract alien minerals for capital gains only to have them taken at gunpoint by A.I. robots. These women used the tenets of genre to reveal the injustices of the present and imagine our evolution.
With these ideas in mind, Zal Batmanglij and I wrote and created “The OA,” a Netflix series about Prairie, a blind girl who is kidnapped and returns seven years later to the community she grew up in with her sight restored. She opens up to a group of lost teenage boys in her neighborhood, telling them about her captivity and the inter-dimensional travel she discovered to survive it. It turns out these boys need to hear Prairie’s story as much as she needs to tell it. For the boys face their own kind of captivity: growing up inside the increasingly toxic obligations of American manhood.
As time has passed, I’ve come to understand what deep influence shaping a narrative has. Stories inspire our actions. They frame for us existences that are and are not possible, delineate tracks we can or cannot travel. They choose who we can find empathy for and who we cannot. What we have fellow feeling for, we protect. What we objectify and commodify, we eventually destroy.
I don’t want to be the dead girl, or Dave’s wife. But I don’t want to be a strong female lead either, if my power is defined largely by violence and domination, conquest and colonization.
Sometimes I get a feeling of what she could be like. A truly free woman. But when I try to fit her into the hero’s journey she recedes from the picture like a mirage. She says to me: Brit, the hero’s journey is centuries of narrative precedent written by men to mythologize men. Its pattern is inciting incident, rising tension, explosive climax and denouement. What does that remind you of?
And I say, a male orgasm.
And she says: Correct. I love the arc of male pleasure. But how could you bring me into being if I must satisfy the choreography of his desire only?
And I say: Good on you. But then how do I bring you into being?
Then I hear only silence.
But even in the silence I dream of answers. I imagine new structures and mythologies born from the choreography of female bodies, non-gendered bodies, bodies of color, disabled bodies. I imagine excavating my own desires, wants and needs, which I have buried so deeply to meet the desires, wants and needs of men around me that I’m not yet sure how my own desire would power the protagonist of a narrative.
These are not yet solutions. But they are places to dig.
Excavating, teaching and celebrating the feminine through stories is, inside our climate emergency, a matter of human survival. The moment we start imagining a new world and sharing it with one another through story is the moment that new world may actually come.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Wescli Wardest
-
Topic Author
- Away
- Meister
-
- Posts: 853
- Thank you received: 1084

I have to agree. I'm not sure there is a singular point in the whole thing. Or that the entire article points back to. I just found her thought process being written down on paper and the journey of realization interesting.
I would guess, if I had to narrow down another persons thoughts... or at least what I got from it, is that over the course of time she has started to realize that women and men don't have to have the same goals or standards to be measured against. That each sex tends to have unique qualities that should be recognized and exemplified with the same degree of importance. That it is just as courageous to be compassionate as it is to place yourself in danger; but, that only one of those tend to get the lime light in today's society. Especially when measured against the common understanding of the Hero's journey.
She does flitter around a lot between her experiences and what she thinks. What I tried to do is remember the opening premise while reading what she wrote. Who knows? The premise could have changed multiple times throughout the article and I missed it! LOL
There are centuries of trial and error inside the “hero’s journey,” in which a young man is called to adventure, challenged by trials, faces a climactic battle and emerges victorious, changed and a hero. And while there are narrative patterns for the adventures of girls — “Alice in Wonderland,” “The Wizard of Oz” — those are few and far between, and for adult women, even less so.
It’s difficult for us to imagine femininity itself — empathy, vulnerability, listening — as strong. When I look at the world our stories have helped us envision and then erect, these are the very qualities that have been vanquished in favor of an overwrought masculinity.
I don’t believe the feminine is sublime and the masculine is horrifying. I believe both are valuable, essential, powerful. But we have maligned one, venerated the other, and fallen into exaggerated performances of both that cause harm to all. How do we restore balance? Or how do we evolve beyond the limitations that binaries like feminine/masculine present in the first place?
As time has passed, I’ve come to understand what deep influence shaping a narrative has. Stories inspire our actions. They frame for us existences that are and are not possible, delineate tracks we can or cannot travel. They choose who we can find empathy for and who we cannot. What we have fellow feeling for, we protect. What we objectify and commodify, we eventually destroy.
One thing I think she is starting to realize is the value of the lived experience and how even though we "are" and exist inside corporeal beings, those beings, bodies help to shape our lived experience of the world.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Wescli Wardest
-
Topic Author
- Away
- Meister
-
- Posts: 853
- Thank you received: 1084
I think that a lot of people don’t realize that just because we are different doesn’t mean we can’t do the same things. It also means that it is completely ok if we do different things from each other.
I also don’t think that we should gauge ourselves or each other by a singular standard when it comes to life experiences and where we are along our path.
The Hero’s journey is a very important part of every guys, and a lot of people’s, growth experience. But what I think a lot of people fail to realize is that there are multiple characters in that story. Like the wise old sage that gives the hero advice along the way. Well, in my thought, every part of every story must be played by someone. That means that at some point each of us should be that sage in someone else’s hero’s journey. So, what journey does one go on to become the wise old sage?
The Hero’s journey was originally about coming of age or coming into yourself from your younger less experienced self. A first step in a series of steps in my opinion.
When I first thought up this place I figured a lot of our members would come from other places. Already started their hero’s journey if not already completed it. And that this could be a kind of “Sage’s” journey. Probably won’t be the last stop for many. And I figure many won’t be ready for it. But I hope it is a more long term journey of deeper self-discovery and exploration of the universal truths.
Ok, I’m done rambling I guess LOL

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- KobayashiRmaru
-
- Offline
- Squire
-
- Posts: 62
- Thank you received: 109
I had honestly never heard 'The Female Gaze" before and really changed my mind in how I view Television and gosh darn it I'm an Anthropologist, I should be aware of this.....
ms-demeanor.tumblr.com/post/151068279457...thing-nakedsasquatch
really opened my eyes....
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
This polarization of the system defines it, the resting potential is its normal state until its stimulated enough to reach that firing threshold which depolarizing the system. What dictates how often it fires is the amount of stimulus (and its capacity to be stimulated), and so if that is higher then it stands to reason the resting potential might be closer to the threshold then something which is not being stimulated. So as a movie viewer the frame of reference being 'fired' needs to connect as stimulus. But something with a proximity to the threshold might be prone to crossing it more often perhaps so might not need so much stimulation to fire.... but as a commercial product its driven by the audience appeal, ie who is the audience, just as much as how often it can be fired. A great movie with no interest probably doesn't sell so well. If a movie can appeal to everyone then it would be best I presume, but that would mean having to have movies which weren't catering solely to that one type of appeal and unfortunately people often seem to push against the very same mechanism which they are trying to grab hold off just because it's not aligned to their own self interests. What might be happening there is while some things appeal to us, some thing might have the opposite effect and reduce the stimulus... in which case we end up having different genres of movies.... which again, leaves us about who is paying for it at the end of the day.
I guess I don't get her point either

極代 ~ per ardua ad astra
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Wescli Wardest
-
Topic Author
- Away
- Meister
-
- Posts: 853
- Thank you received: 1084
There are genders.
We live with each other.
Everyday.
Why should it be so taboo?
It just makes no sense to me.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.