Which is better?

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5 years 3 weeks ago #2811 by Wescli Wardest
Which is better, charity or government assistance programs...

Are social welfare programs fair to the public and/or the person they are supposed to aide?
When do “safety nets” meant to aide people in a time of need become entitlements?
I know this is not the Christmas season. But with modern politics in America having what I consider an alarming amount of Socialist policies being supported by differing politicians, should we not take a minute to look at how government intervention in the average person’s life affects them?

And the ultimate question I have, is it morally good to take from one to give to another? Not should people be charitable but does anyone, even a government have the right to take what is yours to do with as they see fit?


Scrooge and the Welfare State



I have no fear that the people here will become Scrooge. I think that more to the point is the illustration of how government programs meant to do something, helping the distressed in this case, usually fall short and it still remains up to the individual to contribute to “pick up the slack.” If you were not taxed as much for these (my interpretation of them) bloated temples of false piety, virtue signaling and bureaucratic debacles of wood-be charity that ultimately devolve into social entitlements, would you not spend more or give more to local charities or other charities then you currently do?

I'm sure that we (society as a whole) will need government implemented "safety nets" for when people fall on hard times. I am not advocating the abolishment of those at all.

And I'll stop here to give others a chance to comment. :)

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5 years 3 weeks ago #2813 by Serenity
Replied by Serenity on topic Which is better?

Which is better, charity or government assistance programs...


If i just stick to the original question and look how things are organized where i live then i should say both ,but that is only because entitlement is very discouraged here, everything you get from the government is a gift , that can be taken away when the gonvernment wills it.

All government assistence programs are temporary and debatable , and yet none of them never seem to go away , we have wellfare , rent help , mortgage help , etc etc ,

The only support you are really entitled to is if you worked for a certain amount of years and become ill , or out of a Job , but that support you basicly payed into an insurance in advance.

We have a very high number of volunteers that work in countless charity orginasations , charity is very much a thing here that people cherish, You get a training as a volunteer when you can handle it yourself or you deligate it to the government support programs.

So to answer your question: Both governmentsupport can never replace charity , not practically and not emotionally
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5 years 3 weeks ago #2815 by Wescli Wardest
Replied by Wescli Wardest on topic Which is better?
I agree, both are needed. Ultimately I wonder if government programs have become too large to be as effective as they could be.
If the private sector, individuals and community groups could be more effective? And if the government groups have become ineffective should we continue to expand them? Or, cut them back and let the individual take over?

No matter what, I believe we will always need some level of a public safety net. Even if we, the whole of society, were successful I thin the fear of freedom without the safety net would be too much for people.
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5 years 2 weeks ago - 5 years 2 weeks ago #2821 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic Which is better?
As a Social Security Advocate (ie a person who helps people recieve government benefits) I am a bit ambivalent. I cannot and do not make the call as to whether the person applying in my office gets the benefits. That is left up to the analyst. But in terms of numbers, it works out like this:
In a year, if I assist 100 people in getting benefits
3 will get it at the first stage (initial)
11 at the second (appeal)
11 at the third (hearing)
For a total of 25
At the longest it takes 3 years and at the shortest, 3-6 months.

Many of the people I see in my office are refugees from Iraq or Afganistan and all of the people I see in my office have mental illness. I think it is safe to divide the numbers I just gave in half. It is, after all, difficult to see with the naked eye disabilities which are internal (chronic pain or depression for example).

On some level though, I am quite concerned about creating a spirit of learned helplessness. The percent of people who get off benefits is miniscule. Something like one percent. Which is why there are many incentives created by SSA. However, benefits are tied with health insuranace for many people and there is also the fear of being let go after one completely gets off benefits and into employment. One cannot be sure money will come in. Additionally, so many years of being told you cannot work by medical professionals and the SSA and its difficult to shift that mindset
Last edit: 5 years 2 weeks ago by Rosalyn J.
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5 years 2 weeks ago - 5 years 2 weeks ago #2822 by Acanthos
Replied by Acanthos on topic Which is better?
Dole bludging is a rather common thing here in Australia. You get a fortnightly payment if your out of work, intended to cover you while you look for a new job.... so folk just play the system and avoid getting a job. Some people spend their whole lives never working, and then their kids grow up and repeat the pattern!!!

Of course there are disability and aged pensions, but they are different things for people considered genuinely unable to work.
There is also fortnightly payments for fulltime students to get by, and the government gives out loans for courses of study.
But all those things are means tested so to act as a welfare net rather then universal thingee.

Ideally the system would be tightended to avoid abuse of it, and if there was not enough jobs then ideas floated around have included 'work for the dole' with Councils etc doing the mundane important stuff that Councils do :D

I spent nearly a year on the dole back in the day, and it was more cash then I got as an apprentice!!!! It's said never to be enough, but I think there is an element of people living beyond their means at times. The best use of money afterall is not spending but successful investing ;)

極代 ~ per ardua ad astra
Last edit: 5 years 2 weeks ago by Acanthos.
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5 years 2 weeks ago #2823 by Serenity
Replied by Serenity on topic Which is better?
In both replies i see the readiness to help others , and the frustration of people who take advantage of the system , there will always be people that dont want to work and get everything for free , its called entitlement that is why these allowences in the Netherlands are gifts and not something you can rely on indefinately. Most stop after 6 months

I guess its the same everywhere , you just dont want to be taken advantage off as hardworking tax payer...
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